57 Comments
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Susie's avatar

Good account. There's a lot of emotion right now. Let's hope people calm down and the First Amendment continues to protect speaking freely, debating, and disagreeing about anything and everything.

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J.J. McCullough's avatar

The degree the MAGA movement has become so openly, unapologetically religious in nature is really striking, and something that should get more attention than it does.

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Michael Tracey's avatar

It's always been this way. "Stop the Steal" in 2020 was essentially a syncretic Christian revival movement. They undertook what they called a "Jericho March" to DC, and held an incredibly intense prayer/revival rally. https://x.com/mtracey/status/1337812266184548359

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Done with Mirrors's avatar

It’s cringe inducing. I agree. One of worst things is the conservative Christian movement making a messianic figure out of Trump. I don’t think he’s the worst person alive but he has played into those people’s emotions easily. Let it be known the Left has its religious rituals, too. I’ve not forgotten the bend a knee genuflection to Saint Floyd and the COVID era. We needn’t get into the specifics because the intellectually honest that read this know exactly what I’m talking about.

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J.J. McCullough's avatar

It’s not both-sides thing, the leaders of the modern American MAGA right literally believe everything they’re doing is ordained by Jesus Christ himself. When Erica Kirk assumed control of Turning Points USA yesterday, her first words describing what the group exists to do were not about conservatism or politics, just “bringing people to the Lord.”

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Done with Mirrors's avatar

Right. Which we agree is extreme language in an era that can use less of it but you’re showing your hand by not acknowledging the dogmatic fervor of the other side. This is why nothing changes.

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J.J. McCullough's avatar

I’m not talking about dogmatic language I’m talking about believing a political movement is guided by and inspired by Jesus Christ.

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ebear's avatar

Movements tend to evolve in the direction of the more vocal of their members to the point that others who don't share their views drop out over time. MAGA always had a strong Christian presence, but at this point I'd say it's almost entirely Christian Zionist, whereas the secular and moderate religious elements have almost entirely disappeared.

For a sense of how many have bailed out, read the comments on any article about DJT at Zero Hedge, a former MAGA stronghold, now among Trump's most virulent opponents. I've lost count of the mea culpas I've seen for voting him in, and I'm not even a regular there.

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Done with Mirrors's avatar

A lot of Christian conservatives don’t like these political figures dragging Jesus Christ into their message. He wasn’t political because he was for everyone. You should wonder how many people out there who voted for Trump actually cringe when they hear these sorts of monologues.

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Emma M.'s avatar

"He wasn't political because he was for everyone." Completely ahistorical lie and the Romans understood it to be a political issue.

Judeo-Christians were thought unique only for their intolerance of every other religion, and the primary issue with them and the cult leader Jesus Christ was political: their cult unlike all others refused to pay sacrifice to the Emperor, when along with monogamy these were practically the only restrictions enforced by Roman law.

Further, Jesus represented the criminal, the downtrodden, the dispossessed, the whore and thief, and the enemy of the state; he was not the Church Jesus of the police, the banker, the politician, or the businessman that the fictional version of him has become.

If he or his religion were for all, they would not be built upon the heap of ruins of the vanquished that were the thousands of cults before Christ took the sword to them.

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David Cearley's avatar

I haven't consistently turned out to vote for awhile. After seeing what progressives really think about middle of the road people like me, I'm committed to voting in every election I legally can. I don't care if it's just for dog catcher.

People who believe it's ok to kill someone for the words they speak cannot be allowed to EVER hold iffice

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Helene's avatar

Almost no one believes it's okay to kill someone for the words they speak, and I seriously doubt that any elected Democrats hold that position.

People do, however, understand that Charlie put out a lot of hate into the world and his race-baiting misogynist persona does not need to be whitewashed just because his death was tragic.

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David Cearley's avatar

I've watched maybe a dozen of his videos over the past few months. He didn't hate anybody. He didn't say hateful things, period. Take a look yourself and make up your own mind. The crap being put out about him is pure BS

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Emma M.'s avatar

US government bombs and slaughters people overseas all the time for both words spoken and far less than that, yet you support and legitimise such people who you claim should never be allowed to ever hold office. How does it feel to be an easily manipulated hypocrite whose beliefs are driven purely by emotion?

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TeroB's avatar

Your typically excellent analysis, thanks.

So few are willing or able to see the hypocrisy and danger when they are in power. Or to not scapegoat.

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Hugh Breyer's avatar

Glad you are amused.

But I’m not.

I have differences over abortion with Kirk, and I believe in many working class oriented initiatives time honored through the decades, but there is a 3rd Rail on the Left/DSA/ Old Left…Israel.

Except for the US SWP, I really cannot find anybody supporting a sovereign Israel.

I read all sorts of press. There is a double standard employed against Israel.

Airbrushing the medieval cultural zeitgeist redolent to Islam, and irony that while Hannah Shithead brays Free Palestine at the low brow Emmy Awards, Israel promotes a Gay Rights Festival.

I study German Nazism. Gosh, nobody sees that boycotting Jews, taunting Jews, desecrating everything Jewish, distorting Jewish Aid, can be discarded with no explanation?

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Scuba Cat's avatar

We see you, hasbara troll.

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Lebo Von Lo-Debar's avatar

What is a hasbara troll Scuba Cat?

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Hugh Breyer's avatar

I am a Zionist! I also support Trump.

Hamas and PA are the same in practice. There might be Palestinians against Islamism and it’s up to them to identify themselves because so far I don’t see anything.

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ebear's avatar

"Except for the US SWP, I really cannot find anybody supporting a sovereign Israel."

Look a bit harder. Key words: "Dispensationalism" "Christian Zionism"

"Christian Zionism, a movement rooted in evangelical Christianity, emphasizes the theological significance of Israel's restoration and its role in biblical prophecy. In the United States, the number of Christian Zionists—estimated to be between 20 to 50 million—far exceeds the global Jewish population of approximately 15 million. This demographic reality reflects the unique and influential role of Christian Zionism in shaping U.S. foreign policy, public opinion, and the broader geopolitical landscape."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/388231185_There_Are_More_Christian_Zionists_in_the_US_than_Jews_in_the_World

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Conor's avatar

Hey! Curious -- what movements in the US are about "boycotting Jews"?

I am aware of boycotting Israel, which many of my Jewish relatives and friends do. BDS is popular with younger jewish Americans.

Israel is a state of Jewish people that currently has a very right wing government. Is boycotting the government a problem to you?

When I boycotted the Iraq War in 2006, was I less American?

I'm a New Yorker, do I become less of a New Yorker if I boycott a mayor or the NYPD?

What exactly is your angle here? Nobody is allowed to boycott a state that is slaughtering humans en masse?

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Velociraver's avatar

You read all sorts of press? What about press from Gaza? Oh, right, "israel" has killed over 200 such reporters, a historic record...so what "press" are you reading? Could the "double-standard" in reporting have anything to do with the fact that "israel" bans reporters from Gaza and deliberately murders those within to hide evidence of ethnic cleansing and genocide?

Weird how they then post evidence of those same crimes on their personal Tik Tok accounts, much to the chagrin of Yoav Gallant

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Velociraver's avatar

You want to talk about the performative Gay Rights Festival, but not "israeli" rape culture and pedophilia acceptance? Wasn't it just a week or so ago that yet another "israeli" was scooped up in a pedophilia sting and them skipped off back to Pedoland with impunity? The same nation where it was recently argued that raping Palestinian prisoners should be allowed and celebrated? Yes, the same nation founded in terrorism and ethnic cleansing, now guilty of genocide, as well.

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Lebo Von Lo-Debar's avatar

I'm not sure if you hate Israel or not, but if it is no problem could you clarify Mr. Breyer, I have had some brain damage so I sometimes have difficulty understanding what people mean in their writings. It sounds like you don't hate Israel, I'm just not sure, thank you Mr. Breyer.

Lebo Von Lo~Debar

Former/Always

82nd Airborne Infantryman,

Disabled Veteran for Life,

&Author of the book, "The Separation of Corporation and State" subtitled "Common Sense and the Two-Party Crisis" available on Amazon

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Ohio Barbarian's avatar

Amazing how hate speech varies depending on who makes the label. That's why hate speech laws are antidemocratic. Hate speech is protected speech. Period.

Even Charlie Kirk knew that.

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Rob (c137)'s avatar

It's crazy and absurd but beautiful... The power is showing us that they can change the rules whenever they want.

Finally, people are seeing that leadership is just putting on a show. They don't really care about free speech.

They only care about retaining power.

More left vs right WWE "pro" (acted) wrestling to keep us from talking about the real issues that affect people.

We are in end stage IDIOCRACY.

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Sam McGowan's avatar

I doubt seriously if most conservatives had ever even heard of Charlie Kirk, much less know what he stood for, before he was shot. My wife is a good example. She was all distraught and I asked her if she had ever heard of him. She said no. I guarantee you that very few non-Pentecostal Christians who are going on and on about him are aware that he was a Pentecostal, a demonination that only goes back to the early Twentieth Century and was based on speaking in tongues and faith healing, a denomination that included charlatans such as Aimee Semple McPherson and Oral Roberts. It was started by a black revivalist in LA in the early 1900s. The movement gained strength in the 1960s=70s when non-Pentescostals associated with the Assemblies of God started speaking in tongues and claiming healing. One of the most prominent ones now is Paula White, a Mississippi-born and Memphis-raised fruitcake who is Donald Trump's "spiritual advisor." They talk about "revival" but what they really want is a theocratic government with them in charge.

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David N's avatar

In Europe it’s understandable that most people didn’t know who he was but I’m kinda flabbergasted there are people in the US who had never heard of Charlie Kirk!

Being an X addict for years I knew who he was and in fact I used to like him but after checking many of his claims it turns out he was one of those propagandists wrong on most things but impervious to self-criticism.

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Sam McGowan's avatar

David, Kirk had a following but outside of that following, few knew anything about him. His followers seemed to have been mostly college-age and just out. I saw him a time of two on TV. I have talked to others and they had never heard of him. Not everyone follows Twitter/X. I’ve been on it for years but pay little attention to it. I once looked him up and got the impression he was a product of Liberty University if turns out he was never enrolled there, although he had an association with Jerry Falwell Jr, His wife went there which is surprising since Liberty is a Baptist school and she’s Catholic.

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Edward Scizorhands's avatar

When I heard on the radio he'd been shot (that's all I knew at the time, I didn't know the shot was lethal) I thought "did the Internet spring a leak?" I know who he is but NPR was acting like they expected their audience to know.

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Magic Girl's avatar

So true, and that goes for most Americans! Unless you're a political social media hound, you wouldn't have even ever heard of him. I know lots of adult Americans who use social media but who do not venture into the political sphere at all, and they've never heard of him.

Add to that, neither have people outside the US. Such as the Brits. I'm reading writers from the UK here on Substack who until 09.10 had never heard the name, and their writing is among the best and most clear-eyed of all.

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Rich Slutzky's avatar

Holy shit that crowd is white. I haven’t seen a crowd that white since Target was releasing Stanley tumblers at 7am.

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Marilyn's avatar

Love picture of you in the hat.

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Marie G's avatar

It would be great New Jersey go Republican. I recall the thousands that went to Coney Island. If I could add my two cents, three things must happen in this country. number one, the voter rolls must be cleaned. No more dead people voting. Number two. Voter ID. Number three. Term limits. Thank you for your commitment to New Jersey.

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Tim N's avatar

Really? The biggest problem is that 95% of votes are either cast or tallied on electronic machines with proprietary software that easily hacked. Whoever controls the machines controls the votes. The voter rolls must be "cleaned?" What are you talking about? More Blue Team/Red Team hot air and nonsense.

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Marie G's avatar

Absolutely! That would be point number four. Paper ballots, thanks.

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Tim N's avatar

Which won't happen, because both Parties, utterly corrupt and morally bankrupt, cheat each other and ruthlessly put down 3rd Parties.

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Lebo Von Lo-Debar's avatar

I would add a number 4. Get rid of the democrat&republican PARTY.

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Marie G's avatar

Then what? Dictator? We need to get rid of the rhino Republicans. We need more blue dog Democrats. The country is center right. The politics should reflect this.

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Tim N's avatar

Wrong. This country is well to the left of both Parties. Huge majorities want Med4All, massive tax increases on the rich, the end to our wars and the genocide, affordable housing, elimination of student debt, free college, the abandonment of Israel (oh yeah), reining in and massively regulating Wall Street, increasing SS benefits, etc. etc. Thats a goddamned fact.

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Lebo Von Lo-Debar's avatar

That is the first thing you jump to "dictator" how about American Leaders instead of scumbag republican&democrat politicians and their democrat&republican PARTY tyranny.

Read my book, "The Separation of Corporation and State" subtitled "Common Sense and the Two-Party Crisis" available on Amazon.

Yes, read my book and see if you're still supporting the unconstitutional democrat&republican PARTY after reading my book.

Here are three fun questions I like to ask the republican&democrat voter,

1. Will you still vote for the democrat&republican PARTY when the US is $50 TRILLION DOLLARS in debt?

2, Will you still vote for the republican&democrat PARTY when the US is $75 TRILLION DOLLARS in debt?

3. Will you still vote for the democrat&republican PARTY when the US is $100 TRILLION DOLLARS in debt?

The point of the three questions is to see just how stupid someone is willing to be for the republican&democrat PARTY.

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Marie G's avatar

Good citizen, our country is a mess. And not only are the political parties corrupt but our courts. Honestly, violent rhetoric is a major problem. You have a good point. The Democrat party holds so much of our media.

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Marie G's avatar

There has never been a better friend to Israel, then Donald Trump🇺🇸. The Republican party is 100% against free tuition for illegals and canceling out debt for others. Put the TV on. You will never see the president speak on local channels. You will see the president speak on cable. Yes, there is a Uni party, not always acting in the best interest, of the United States, however, Donald Trump🇺🇸 is the Republican Party. For the next four years, indeed we will have a great country.

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Lebo Von Lo-Debar's avatar

I did not know much about Charlie Kirk, as I am neither a democrat or a republican. I always thought of him as a recruiter for the two-parties, again I don't know much about him, but he did not deserve to die that way, nor anyone else for that matter. So, with limited knowledge of a man I did not know I say, "RIP Mr. Kirk, and may God watch over your family."

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reachspike's avatar

Michael, please explain what you mean by Ken White having gone insane. I don't disagree -- in fact I don't know much about this person. I'm just curious.

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Eric P.'s avatar

Since you didn't know much about Charlie Kirk, would knowing that he was an unapologetic racist, bigot, antisemite, and sexist change your mind? Did you say the same kind words when Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussain were killed?

My point is, there are actually evil people out there who we haven't said nice things about after their demise.

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Brian Duffy's avatar

I like that MT gets off his ass and goes to events like this but in this case he could have saved a lot of time by just scrolling through X for an hour.

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Guven Cagil's avatar

Very good article. Thanks, Michael.

Couple of questions(or points):

" ..the political energy being fomented right now is really, really dark." - I can't remember a time when it wasn't, at least since the Ross Perot moment of 1992 Is this darker than, say, 1930s Nazi Germany? Is it halfway to that? What do you think Ross Perot would've said?

If the US was a three-party system, do you think that third party would have cancel culture like that of the Dems and the Repubs?

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