All you have to do to see that it's a lie is go back and read the original Sharon Churcher articles about Roberts and Andrew. She said there was no sex involved. Then after Churcher told her to spice up the manuscript she was working on, she had sex with Anderw in London (age of consent 16) and New York (17). She turned 17 right after she was employed by Epstein as a sex masseuse.
In the maxwell proffer interview (day 1), maxwell alleges that in the original photo, it was dated as taken January but later when it was sent to FBI, it was dated as taken in March so as to make it consistent with the flight logs. This is what her defense is arguing, that it was manufactured, also alleges that the photo was a literally fake. Would love to see some corroborating evidence related to that.
She gave the photo to Sharon Churcher, a Daily Mail journalist. The FBI had no idea of its existence until the Sunday Mail published it. Roberts, who had married and was now Virginia Guiffre, was living in Australia and it was published in a British newspaper. If it was faked, it was faked in Australia and the Australian authorities would have jurisdiction, not the FBI.
Maxwell's memory is slightly off, but the gist is correct. In Giuffre's 2011 interview with the FBI, she said the January 2001 stamps in her passport were for the trip that included London, and she couldn't remember the reason for the March 2001 stamp in her passport was.
Even if it were to be a legitimate photo taken hastily or opportunistically in the momentary presence of Prince Andrew, such that he might not remember, it doesn't mean any contact beyond that ever took place. To infer that the photo is evidence of a crime simply because Andrew can't recall it being taken, is a logical fallacy.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Andrew arrested over spilling National trade & security secrets to Epstein. Let's grant Gruffrei was a liar & all the sex stuff is fabricated- how does that affect Andrew's abuse of his position as a Trade Representative?
To add to your point at the end, the press doesn't even accurately report on what Epstein was actually charged with in the 2019 indictment, which is just the sexualized massages (aka alleged sexual abuse) in both his NY and FL residences. Getting the girls under age 18 to come to his NY residence was considered "sex trafficking" in the indictment. Nothing beyond that. The 2019 indictment is on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:U.s._v._jeffrey_epstein_indictment_0.pdf
If the press actually read and reported on the 2020 OPR report like you did, maybe we wouldn't be here. It's pretty detailed about what the actual facts around Epstein and his prosecution.
Is that what he thinks? Or is he making the case to investigate and validate claims of abuse?
History shows humans (and men in particular) are capable of vile acts. To assume a man is automatically guilty of vile acts ( when enough money is involved to change stories again and again) without further evidence is unjustified.
The fact is today's mass media is not about reporting news, but manipulating opinion, often for financial gain
Keep in mind this woman thinks the age of consent should be 21, that any age-gap difference in sexual relations of more than 5 years should be illegal (so no 35 y/o + 41 y/o), and so on.
Any >5 year age gap gives the older man FAR more power over the woman. I want all sexual relationships to be as close to perfectly egalitarian as possible,
No. It has nothing to do with age. In fact, women can wrap men around their fingers and turn their brains into jelly. It's a battle of wits if you want to view it as a power-relationship. When it's consensual the age doesn't much matter (as long as some basic maturity has occurred).
I told her in high school I had sex with my girlfriend who was over 18 while I was under 18 and she said that means I was sexually assaulted. She clearly hates men but in theory she would run around accusing everyone of getting raped if they were under 18 or just shy of her magical age-difference-boundary.
I like where Michael trashes the whole U.S. and British media, and the interviewer dryly notes that there are UK exceptions (i.e., Unherd, whose channel he was currently on) and Michael fails to courteously acknowledge it. Substance, not style, is definitely the brand here!
That said, this was a very good interview. The interviewer does a really good job pulling Michael back after tangents without getting in the way of what he has to say.
We believe the victims! Keep Virginia out of your mouth! You are a pedophile apologist - Andrew is guilty as all of them. But yeah, go sing his praises.
One of the purported victims, Rina Oh sued Virginia and her estate for defamation and that case is still ongoing. If you believe all the victims, what do you make of that?
Not only that but Sarah Ransome called her out on Twitter and told her that her Andrew story was total bs and if she had anything to do with it she would make her give the money back
I believe they have all been traumatized & deserve to be heard and believed. Because of Virginia’s bravery more victims have come out. They all might remember details differently. I think his comments about her “making it up” are despicable! That’s how I feel about that!
Deserving to be heard is one thing. Being believed is something else.
When vast amounts of money are at stake, there is ample motivation to lie. Verification becomes critical. People have been vindicated, and others are in prison, so vindication is clearly a MAJOR issue.
There is only way to verify. Begin with an unbiased mind, and find/evaluate evidence to support/deny. The DOJ is tasked with doing that. Good luck trying to prove them wrong.
The most corrupt in US history! Another pedophile apologist…I bet there are lots of you. Go diddle each other & leave our daughters alone! You can FO too Neil 😘
If Rina wins this case, that would be, I think 3 out of 4 people who got accused by Virginia, who then sued Virginia for ‘making it up’ and then proceeded to win their respective case in court.
YOU believe the billionaire men who have been engaging in this horrific abuse! YOU, Sam are a pedophile apologist or maybe you are on that list! If they win their case it’s because there could be a payout that could help those victims too! It does not mean that it didn’t happened! Virginia is not here to defend herself but that does not matter because we want justice for all victims! Get a life dude!
FOOL. SIMP. CUCK. Virginia Guiffre has outed herself as a SERIAL LIAR on numerous occasions. Guiffre LIED about being raped by Alan Dershowitz, which btw, SHE COPPED to lying about. She also LIED about being raped by Andrew, even IF they had sex, she was >SEVENTEEN at the time, a year OVER the age of consent in the UK. She also LIED about being raped by her father, she also LIED about being raped by her husband, who btw, HE got a restraining order against >HER and HE won custody of the kids...also before she even met Epstein Guiffre LIED about being raped by TWO of her crack addict boyfriends. Only FOOLS would believe a single word from her
Your comment indicates that you're not familiar with the facts about Epstein and the allegations. Virginia Roberts Giuffre told verifiable fibs, to put it politely, and she has escaped scrutiny continually because the press likes to report on the salaciousness of the stories she told for clicks.
Let me make this perfectly clear Sam…I do not engage with pedophiles or their apologist. I know it’s exciting to have an intelligent woman to engage with but it ends right here. FK YOU for believing that crap! Women have been abused and trafficked for a long time in history. Things are changing and victims are telling their stories and we believe them. Now bugger off!
No, "hebephile" is 11-14 yes? He did not "want" 14 year olds or younger, it was an accident of their "pimps" (Haley Robson and Virginia Giuffre) telling them to lie about their age. There is possibly another 14 y/o that wasn't rolled up in the original Palm Beach investigation but was perhaps involved a year prior, Carolyn Andriano, who (IIRC) says "I was already large chested and could pass for a 21 y/o with the right clothes and makeup" (which Virginia Giuffre gave her).
There really appears to be no evidence Epstein had any "sexual disorders" other than - for a time - a pathological obsession with jerking off while getting massages from young women.
I don't think that's true. He had plenty of sexual interest in 20 year-olds, witness Lisa Phillips, Rina Oh, etc. I mean he had a sexual relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell when she was in her 20's and 30's.
All I'm certain of is that Prince Andrew should never be applauded and cheered on the BBC. He has done plenty of things wrong whether or not that particular allegation is true or not.
I think it’s a cop-out to latch onto one possibly infelicitous bit of hyperbole to dismiss Michael Tracey’s journalism. If you can refute what he is saying, please do so.
There were plenty of signs that something wasn't right with Jeffrey Epstein. The fact that he was a registered sex offender in New York and Florida was a matter of record. That he usually traveled with an entourage of "girls" was common knowledge.
Richard Branson called this entourage
Epstein's "harem." "As long as you bring your harem!" Branson wrote in 2013.
When Jeffrey Epstein said "massage" in the years after he got out of jail in 2009, what did his friends and associates think he meant?
Epstein had been convicted in a Florida court of sex crimes with minors in 2008. His method, reported in The New York Times at the time, had been to recruit girls as young as 14 to his home and persuade them to undress and massage him. Then he would force them to have sex and paid them cash.
He was charged with sex crimes again in 2019, this time by the federal government, which accused him of trafficking underage girls in the early 2000s. The crimes he committed in the years between 2009 and his death in a Manhattan jail cell he was not charged with them due to his death. But the Epstein files show that, during that decade, he was both rebuilding and curating his vast, elite social network, while also looking at plans for a new massage room on his private island of Little St. James and choosing marble for his massage room in New York.
You don’t know much about crime do you? Or rape & sexual assault? It’s not about sex. It’s about domination, control. Throwing a few hundred dollars at the victim demeans them further and creates a “mitigation” in their defence. Which is exactly the giant elephant trap you’ve sauntered into. Wow I bet your Mom never thought you’d end up as a pdf-file and rapist apologist.
That sort of sex is really just unlawful intercourse. That’s what it is in my state. That’s statutory rape. They just call it that because people hate it and they think the men are taking advantage of the girls.
Nobody’s raping anybody. When I was young nobody thought ststutory rape was real rape. Epstein’s not a pedophile. Pedophiles like prepubertal little kids under 13. Epstein liked teenagers. Sex with teenagers is not related to pedophilia.
All you have to do to see that it's a lie is go back and read the original Sharon Churcher articles about Roberts and Andrew. She said there was no sex involved. Then after Churcher told her to spice up the manuscript she was working on, she had sex with Anderw in London (age of consent 16) and New York (17). She turned 17 right after she was employed by Epstein as a sex masseuse.
In the maxwell proffer interview (day 1), maxwell alleges that in the original photo, it was dated as taken January but later when it was sent to FBI, it was dated as taken in March so as to make it consistent with the flight logs. This is what her defense is arguing, that it was manufactured, also alleges that the photo was a literally fake. Would love to see some corroborating evidence related to that.
She gave the photo to Sharon Churcher, a Daily Mail journalist. The FBI had no idea of its existence until the Sunday Mail published it. Roberts, who had married and was now Virginia Guiffre, was living in Australia and it was published in a British newspaper. If it was faked, it was faked in Australia and the Australian authorities would have jurisdiction, not the FBI.
Maxwell's memory is slightly off, but the gist is correct. In Giuffre's 2011 interview with the FBI, she said the January 2001 stamps in her passport were for the trip that included London, and she couldn't remember the reason for the March 2001 stamp in her passport was.
Even if it were to be a legitimate photo taken hastily or opportunistically in the momentary presence of Prince Andrew, such that he might not remember, it doesn't mean any contact beyond that ever took place. To infer that the photo is evidence of a crime simply because Andrew can't recall it being taken, is a logical fallacy.
You will see the truth come out soon
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Andrew arrested over spilling National trade & security secrets to Epstein. Let's grant Gruffrei was a liar & all the sex stuff is fabricated- how does that affect Andrew's abuse of his position as a Trade Representative?
To add to your point at the end, the press doesn't even accurately report on what Epstein was actually charged with in the 2019 indictment, which is just the sexualized massages (aka alleged sexual abuse) in both his NY and FL residences. Getting the girls under age 18 to come to his NY residence was considered "sex trafficking" in the indictment. Nothing beyond that. The 2019 indictment is on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:U.s._v._jeffrey_epstein_indictment_0.pdf
If the press actually read and reported on the 2020 OPR report like you did, maybe we wouldn't be here. It's pretty detailed about what the actual facts around Epstein and his prosecution.
When it comes to Virginia Giuffre, I think people need to start referring to her initial 2011 Daily Mail interview article (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361039/Prince-Andrew-girl-17-sex-offender-friend-flew-Britain-meet-him.html) where she told what we now know as lies:
- that she spent 4 years with Epstein (wrong - less than 2 years);
- that she met Epstein when she was 15 (lie: she was 17);
- that she went on a 6-week trip in 2001 to Paris, Spain, Morocco, and London (lie - it was only about a week)
- that Epstein rented her an apartment (lie - she rented two different apartments with different boyfriends she had at the time)
- and so on.
Yes Epstein paid minors for sex and in 2019 that resulted in Feds prosecuting him for “trafficking!”
Go Michael!!!
I prefer written, so looking forward to your report.
The whole sexual aspect of all the Epstein stuff is vastly overblown, but it does appear that Andrew passed along sensitive information.
Total lunacy.
Serious question: do you, Michael Tracey, think that women shoukd have to endure sexual assault and harassment?
Is that what he thinks? Or is he making the case to investigate and validate claims of abuse?
History shows humans (and men in particular) are capable of vile acts. To assume a man is automatically guilty of vile acts ( when enough money is involved to change stories again and again) without further evidence is unjustified.
The fact is today's mass media is not about reporting news, but manipulating opinion, often for financial gain
Tracey has never once condemned sexual harassment. I would like to know if he thinks sexual harassment is bad or just something women have to endure.
Keep in mind this woman thinks the age of consent should be 21, that any age-gap difference in sexual relations of more than 5 years should be illegal (so no 35 y/o + 41 y/o), and so on.
She's basically a nutcase.
Why shouldn’t the age of consent be 21? Sex is much more life altering than drinking?
The drinking age should be lowered to 15.
Any >5 year age gap gives the older man FAR more power over the woman. I want all sexual relationships to be as close to perfectly egalitarian as possible,
This is why you are alone. I feel for you.
No. It has nothing to do with age. In fact, women can wrap men around their fingers and turn their brains into jelly. It's a battle of wits if you want to view it as a power-relationship. When it's consensual the age doesn't much matter (as long as some basic maturity has occurred).
Serious question: do you karen think that men should have to endure false allegations of sexual assault and harassment?
I told her in high school I had sex with my girlfriend who was over 18 while I was under 18 and she said that means I was sexually assaulted. She clearly hates men but in theory she would run around accusing everyone of getting raped if they were under 18 or just shy of her magical age-difference-boundary.
Is he related to Marc Andreessen also?😂
What is this Jews name?
Cope
Is Michael Tracey not a Jew?
He's Northern European mostly. You antisemites suck at basic phenotypes.
So Michael Tracey is not a Jew. Jews are Northern European too actually. In fact you cannot give me a proper answer can you?
Now Val you dumb slut. Semitism is evil. So why are you not against this evil?
I like where Michael trashes the whole U.S. and British media, and the interviewer dryly notes that there are UK exceptions (i.e., Unherd, whose channel he was currently on) and Michael fails to courteously acknowledge it. Substance, not style, is definitely the brand here!
That said, this was a very good interview. The interviewer does a really good job pulling Michael back after tangents without getting in the way of what he has to say.
We believe the victims! Keep Virginia out of your mouth! You are a pedophile apologist - Andrew is guilty as all of them. But yeah, go sing his praises.
One of the purported victims, Rina Oh sued Virginia and her estate for defamation and that case is still ongoing. If you believe all the victims, what do you make of that?
Not only that but Sarah Ransome called her out on Twitter and told her that her Andrew story was total bs and if she had anything to do with it she would make her give the money back
I believe they have all been traumatized & deserve to be heard and believed. Because of Virginia’s bravery more victims have come out. They all might remember details differently. I think his comments about her “making it up” are despicable! That’s how I feel about that!
Deserving to be heard is one thing. Being believed is something else.
When vast amounts of money are at stake, there is ample motivation to lie. Verification becomes critical. People have been vindicated, and others are in prison, so vindication is clearly a MAJOR issue.
There is only way to verify. Begin with an unbiased mind, and find/evaluate evidence to support/deny. The DOJ is tasked with doing that. Good luck trying to prove them wrong.
You mean “Trumps DOJ” 😂
The most corrupt in US history! Another pedophile apologist…I bet there are lots of you. Go diddle each other & leave our daughters alone! You can FO too Neil 😘
Do you realize you have libeled me by calling me a pedophile apologist?
LIBEL is the legally indefensible publication or broadcast of words or images that are degrading to a person or injurious to his or her reputation.
I have NOT libeled you. Please apologize. If there is an error in my comment, please point it out, in a manner that allows verification.
If Rina wins this case, that would be, I think 3 out of 4 people who got accused by Virginia, who then sued Virginia for ‘making it up’ and then proceeded to win their respective case in court.
YOU believe the billionaire men who have been engaging in this horrific abuse! YOU, Sam are a pedophile apologist or maybe you are on that list! If they win their case it’s because there could be a payout that could help those victims too! It does not mean that it didn’t happened! Virginia is not here to defend herself but that does not matter because we want justice for all victims! Get a life dude!
Please explain this tweet as reminded by Andrew itt, https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9G4e!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaf52634-8b42-4aea-941c-e7cb9a57acd4_1072x786.png
SIMP. FOOL. CUCK. You are a FOOL of the lowest order. NONE of Epstein's hoes are victims., they are ALL proven LIARS.
I made a mistake. I think she was a menopausal w0e-MAN
FOOL. SIMP. CUCK. Virginia Guiffre has outed herself as a SERIAL LIAR on numerous occasions. Guiffre LIED about being raped by Alan Dershowitz, which btw, SHE COPPED to lying about. She also LIED about being raped by Andrew, even IF they had sex, she was >SEVENTEEN at the time, a year OVER the age of consent in the UK. She also LIED about being raped by her father, she also LIED about being raped by her husband, who btw, HE got a restraining order against >HER and HE won custody of the kids...also before she even met Epstein Guiffre LIED about being raped by TWO of her crack addict boyfriends. Only FOOLS would believe a single word from her
Your comment indicates that you're not familiar with the facts about Epstein and the allegations. Virginia Roberts Giuffre told verifiable fibs, to put it politely, and she has escaped scrutiny continually because the press likes to report on the salaciousness of the stories she told for clicks.
Alleged victims. Nothing has been proved to my satisfaction.
How is Andrew a pedophile? That girl was legal everywhere he had sex with her.
Dude, fuck the victims, they kinda went in to mingle with the rich pedos and basically asked for it.
Also fuck the rich elites. They'll do whatever you allow them to.
Stop going to bounce tits and ass at the parties maybe.
Let me make this perfectly clear Sam…I do not engage with pedophiles or their apologist. I know it’s exciting to have an intelligent woman to engage with but it ends right here. FK YOU for believing that crap! Women have been abused and trafficked for a long time in history. Things are changing and victims are telling their stories and we believe them. Now bugger off!
Very sound reasoning 😂
LET ME GUESS? You're not a SIMP, CUCK, FOOL? You're a menopausal w0e-MAN fool?
There was no pedophilia involved in anything Epstein related!!!
Correct. But Epstein was a hebephile.
No, "hebephile" is 11-14 yes? He did not "want" 14 year olds or younger, it was an accident of their "pimps" (Haley Robson and Virginia Giuffre) telling them to lie about their age. There is possibly another 14 y/o that wasn't rolled up in the original Palm Beach investigation but was perhaps involved a year prior, Carolyn Andriano, who (IIRC) says "I was already large chested and could pass for a 21 y/o with the right clothes and makeup" (which Virginia Giuffre gave her).
There really appears to be no evidence Epstein had any "sexual disorders" other than - for a time - a pathological obsession with jerking off while getting massages from young women.
He told an interviewer, “When the braces come off, I lose all interest.” That’s a dx of hebephilia right there.
11-14. I put it at 12-14 or 12-15?
I don't think that's true. He had plenty of sexual interest in 20 year-olds, witness Lisa Phillips, Rina Oh, etc. I mean he had a sexual relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell when she was in her 20's and 30's.
How is Andrew a pedophile?
Believe all women!!! https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!9G4e!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcaf52634-8b42-4aea-941c-e7cb9a57acd4_1072x786.png
"Prince Andrew should be on the BBC being applauded and cheered" - LOL ok, time to stop listening to this nonsense!
So you believe that pathological lying prostitute?
All I'm certain of is that Prince Andrew should never be applauded and cheered on the BBC. He has done plenty of things wrong whether or not that particular allegation is true or not.
I think it’s a cop-out to latch onto one possibly infelicitous bit of hyperbole to dismiss Michael Tracey’s journalism. If you can refute what he is saying, please do so.
hummmm don't believe the victim????
Your dead rite Mick
Maybe just me, but this was just rambling.
There were plenty of signs that something wasn't right with Jeffrey Epstein. The fact that he was a registered sex offender in New York and Florida was a matter of record. That he usually traveled with an entourage of "girls" was common knowledge.
Richard Branson called this entourage
Epstein's "harem." "As long as you bring your harem!" Branson wrote in 2013.
When Jeffrey Epstein said "massage" in the years after he got out of jail in 2009, what did his friends and associates think he meant?
Epstein had been convicted in a Florida court of sex crimes with minors in 2008. His method, reported in The New York Times at the time, had been to recruit girls as young as 14 to his home and persuade them to undress and massage him. Then he would force them to have sex and paid them cash.
He was charged with sex crimes again in 2019, this time by the federal government, which accused him of trafficking underage girls in the early 2000s. The crimes he committed in the years between 2009 and his death in a Manhattan jail cell he was not charged with them due to his death. But the Epstein files show that, during that decade, he was both rebuilding and curating his vast, elite social network, while also looking at plans for a new massage room on his private island of Little St. James and choosing marble for his massage room in New York.
"Then he would force them to have sex and paid them cash."
Why give them cash if he forced them to have sex? Doesn't really make any sense.
Because he never raped any of them obviously.
You don’t know much about crime do you? Or rape & sexual assault? It’s not about sex. It’s about domination, control. Throwing a few hundred dollars at the victim demeans them further and creates a “mitigation” in their defence. Which is exactly the giant elephant trap you’ve sauntered into. Wow I bet your Mom never thought you’d end up as a pdf-file and rapist apologist.
He never forced them to have sex.
Were you there? Any under age girl cannot legally consent to “sex”, it’s called statutory rape.
I bet your Mom never thought you’d turn out to be a rapist defender and pedophile apologist. She must be sickened.
That sort of sex is really just unlawful intercourse. That’s what it is in my state. That’s statutory rape. They just call it that because people hate it and they think the men are taking advantage of the girls.
Nobody’s raping anybody. When I was young nobody thought ststutory rape was real rape. Epstein’s not a pedophile. Pedophiles like prepubertal little kids under 13. Epstein liked teenagers. Sex with teenagers is not related to pedophilia.