"One of the few oft-repeated cliches I happen to actually agree with is that there legitimately is no conceivable justification for political violence of this sort in 2024 America. "
Agree but it is especially galling to hear this from a chorus of presstitutes and AIPAC faithful who are the primary source of the division from their Russiagate lies and January 6th distortions to many referring to Trump as another Hitler and unique threat to democracy w sick domination of social media & authoritative sources are clueless or lying talking heads unteathered from reality.
I'm afraid I don't agree. I mean, "What did you think was going to happen?"
At what point did the founding fathers, the signers of the declaration of independence, decide that they had finally "had enough"? When did they sponsor the Boston Tea Party? When did they organize militias to stand against the British.
Who remembers the SDS and their efforts to end the Vietnam War?
Does anyone recall that John Kerry was the principle spokesman for the "Winter Soldier Investigation" to end the Vietnam war and it was he who testified before Congress, overshadowing those who had actually done the work. Huh... who invited him?
The same John Kerry, as Obama's Secretary of State, who presided over the 2014 Maidan Coup in Ukraine directly leading to the stupid war that threatens us all with Nuclear annihilation. The same John Kerry who tried to sabotage (according to Ray McGovern on the Judge Nap YouTube show) the agreement between Putin and Obama to use a USN ship to neutralize all of Syria's chemical weapons in 2013 thus removing Obama's "red line" so invading Syria could no longer be justified.
The John Kerry who is a member of the Forbes Family. I mean... JezusChrist.
Yet another attempt to free ourselves from the Oligarchy subverted by a smooth talker financed by the Oligarchy. (Or AIPAC if you prefer)
Of course, there are differences between all these events and what it happening now. These differences should be recognized, discussed, and hopefully, some way of working through this fiasco we now find ourselves in will be plotted.
I recall a recent Norman Finkelstein interview where he equated the 7 Oct Hamas uprising, and the resulting genocide, with the pre-Civil War Nat Turner rebellion. He quoted a northern newspaper at the time: "We told you and we told you and we told you. What did you think was going to happen?"
When AIPAC funded police thugs violently suppress peaceful support for ending the most horrific crime in my lifetime -- "What did you think was going to happen?"
When those same thugs keep advancing the NATO threat to Russia further and further East, ignoring Russian pleas to "let's be friends" -- "What did you think was going to happen?"
When those thugs make a mockery out of our electoral system so that voters are left only with the "lesser of two evils" -- "What did you think was going to happen?"
Pull yourselves out of this dreamland where there is a level playing field, where you can act honorably and win. Recognize the Oligarchy for who they are; realize that they will stop at nothing to ensure their positions of privilege, no matter how many of you they have to kill.
Anyone who insists there "no conceivable justification" has already lost.
We are in total agreement for most of this up to your last line. First it seems you misunderstood my point that the insincere fire started lamenting the flames they lit and fanned is so malicious it makes me want to jam a bar of soap in their mouths.
Separately the point about violence that always has far more tragic consequences for the many and benefits to very few. Keep in mind the old CIA field rules that became gift shop favorite when revealed in FOIA in maybe 1990s. Admit nothing - Deny everything - Make counter-accusations - When calm is not to your benefit chaos is your friend.
Violence begets chaos & hurts children & all living things.. never ok by me!
Sorry not a fan of the man or genre so reference is lost on me. If the weaponry of the police state is unleashed in my direction and NYC is turned into Gaza there is no weapon to protect me just a community who are opposed and will open their hearts & homes share whatever they can. It's why supporting local farmers & community building efforts are my best way to grow resistance cuz truth is when %$#@ goes down only folks standing around you will help save you. Don't expect that idea to set well w globalists!
While I agree with your epistemological musings in the abstract, it is rather unlikely that enough information will be available any time soon upon which to make an assertion based upon fact. How long was it before any solid facts were made available about the JFK assassination, and the complete facts, despite continuous promises, are still being kept from the public. And that was a successful assassination. I think it unrealistic that any responses based upon facts will be possible for a while, if ever. What can be made are some fact-based statements about the political and civic conditions that provided the climate which make such an event more than likely. In fact, given the facts we have, the only irrational response I can imagine is one of surprise. What brings me to a place of dismay is that this was so predictable. And this seems to me a more accurate register for the state of our political, civic, and social landscape.
The idea that any of the facts that will be revealed over the coming days will be trustworthy is naive at best. If Donald Trump has done nothing else of value, he has revealed to all who want to see the extent to which our democracy is a myth and to which the Deep State or Security State or Blob or whatever you want to call it, controls the country. This truth has been known to those who sought it out or were in a position in which it made itself known for a long while. However, it was only with Trump that it has become a topic of the general discourse. However, the fact that it has become part of the general discourse does not seem to have lessened the power it has to twist the available limits of known political reality to its bidding. The only thing that this general revelation has accomplished is to make more likely more extreme actions than in the past decades since the advent of this Blob. While this attempt might well prove to be the lunatic action of a lone assassin, it really hardly matters, as the trust in any information provided to prove one truth or another is all but vanished. And I dare say, rightly so. After the mainstream media became a wing of one of the two dominant parties, how can anyone muster trust on any mass level. Those who do trust, with few exceptions, are doing so out of partisanship rather than any rational survey of the given facts. The given facts which, once again, have been revealed to be intentionally circumscribed and skewed in the manner they have been doled out. Only after months or years, or even decades, do we seem to put together the courage and capabllity to challenge to paltry and questionable servings which we have been offered.
I am hopeful that the that part of the web that is still free continues to make a difference and that there will continue to be an acceleration in the correction of official fact or propaganda, that there will continue to be an acceleration in the offering of alternative versions to the official 'truth'. But those who are offering such hope are under assault and are daily battling for their right to exist. Another reality which should tell us how untrustworthy any facts in the near after of an event are likely to be.
A long way just to say that any rational response is unlikely. And the word 'reaction' by definition is not rational. I hope there will be space for the rational before this election. But hope, possibly in a more positive and gentle way, is not very rational itself.
Poor reasoning also extends to many in mass media and sadly politics/gov't. It seems there are no consequences for repeating false information about your opponent, or getting former gov't officials to sign false statements for a particular party, let alone choosing not to prosecute the exact same crime levied on your rival because the prosecutor can predict the jury's outcome..?
I don’t even have that desire for any particular outcome. I don’t “desire” for the motives or background of an attempted assassin to align with my political prerogatives, which are divorced from the current partisan tempest anyway.
Sorry, Mike. The nature of the beast, I guess. A journalist has higher standards of evaluation (or should have) than the crowd, so there's always going to be frustration when you clearly see lazy reasoning and social media is blissfully ignorant.
When the clash between the combined West and the combining rest eventually winds down, it will go down as one of history's most spectacular and most embarrassing failures of leadership. If Western leaders were capable of shame, they would be resigning their positions in droves. The fact that they’re not is because they were carefully recruited and cultivated precisely so that they wouldn't have such scruples.
West under clowns and zealots -- Western world has been cultivating a dangerous groupthink that's all but sealed the collapse of their agendas. -- Alex Sasha Krainer -- Jun 05, 2024
“There is probably very little that can or should be done to counter it (no censorship, please) but for my part I would advise people to strengthen their critical faculties and conscientiously consume all info they see online.” - ok but it seems to me that the pure volume of social media itself that people consume on a nonstop basis is weakening and has weakened critical faculties beyond the breaking point. It requires pure force of will with absolutely no guardrails to help them. It’s like telling someone to limit their sugar intake or drink moderately when they carry around candy or booze with them wherever they go.
I mean if this is the point at which you realize people's capability to sort truth from fiction is woefully deficient, I would say you haven't really been paying attention. This is the exact reason why propaganda and campaign financing are still so effective, because people are easily duped. We consider ourselves rational creatures, the truth is we think 90%-95% with our emotions first, the remaining 5-10% is rationality, depending on the person.
Philosophers have been delving into this innate human irrationality for many years now. Consider Plato's Allegory of the Cave, and you will understand how the human mind works. We see shadows on a wall, and we take it for realty. If someone comes by to tell us differently, the natural human reaction is to tell that person to go pound sand, these shadows are real and no one will convince me otherwise.
"One of the few oft-repeated cliches I happen to actually agree with is that there legitimately is no conceivable justification for political violence of this sort in 2024 America. "
Agree but it is especially galling to hear this from a chorus of presstitutes and AIPAC faithful who are the primary source of the division from their Russiagate lies and January 6th distortions to many referring to Trump as another Hitler and unique threat to democracy w sick domination of social media & authoritative sources are clueless or lying talking heads unteathered from reality.
I'm afraid I don't agree. I mean, "What did you think was going to happen?"
At what point did the founding fathers, the signers of the declaration of independence, decide that they had finally "had enough"? When did they sponsor the Boston Tea Party? When did they organize militias to stand against the British.
Who remembers the SDS and their efforts to end the Vietnam War?
Does anyone recall that John Kerry was the principle spokesman for the "Winter Soldier Investigation" to end the Vietnam war and it was he who testified before Congress, overshadowing those who had actually done the work. Huh... who invited him?
The same John Kerry, as Obama's Secretary of State, who presided over the 2014 Maidan Coup in Ukraine directly leading to the stupid war that threatens us all with Nuclear annihilation. The same John Kerry who tried to sabotage (according to Ray McGovern on the Judge Nap YouTube show) the agreement between Putin and Obama to use a USN ship to neutralize all of Syria's chemical weapons in 2013 thus removing Obama's "red line" so invading Syria could no longer be justified.
The John Kerry who is a member of the Forbes Family. I mean... JezusChrist.
Yet another attempt to free ourselves from the Oligarchy subverted by a smooth talker financed by the Oligarchy. (Or AIPAC if you prefer)
Of course, there are differences between all these events and what it happening now. These differences should be recognized, discussed, and hopefully, some way of working through this fiasco we now find ourselves in will be plotted.
I recall a recent Norman Finkelstein interview where he equated the 7 Oct Hamas uprising, and the resulting genocide, with the pre-Civil War Nat Turner rebellion. He quoted a northern newspaper at the time: "We told you and we told you and we told you. What did you think was going to happen?"
When AIPAC funded police thugs violently suppress peaceful support for ending the most horrific crime in my lifetime -- "What did you think was going to happen?"
When those same thugs keep advancing the NATO threat to Russia further and further East, ignoring Russian pleas to "let's be friends" -- "What did you think was going to happen?"
When those thugs make a mockery out of our electoral system so that voters are left only with the "lesser of two evils" -- "What did you think was going to happen?"
Pull yourselves out of this dreamland where there is a level playing field, where you can act honorably and win. Recognize the Oligarchy for who they are; realize that they will stop at nothing to ensure their positions of privilege, no matter how many of you they have to kill.
Anyone who insists there "no conceivable justification" has already lost.
We are in total agreement for most of this up to your last line. First it seems you misunderstood my point that the insincere fire started lamenting the flames they lit and fanned is so malicious it makes me want to jam a bar of soap in their mouths.
Separately the point about violence that always has far more tragic consequences for the many and benefits to very few. Keep in mind the old CIA field rules that became gift shop favorite when revealed in FOIA in maybe 1990s. Admit nothing - Deny everything - Make counter-accusations - When calm is not to your benefit chaos is your friend.
Violence begets chaos & hurts children & all living things.. never ok by me!
Yes, "violence begets chaos".
What is it that the Oligarchy is perpetrating on us? Seems pretty violent to me.
You can reject violence all you want, but when evil men have a gun to your head, what is your choice?
Maybe explain to me the options not explored in Clint Eastwood's movie "Unforgiven". The choices are quite stark, kill or be killed.
Sorry not a fan of the man or genre so reference is lost on me. If the weaponry of the police state is unleashed in my direction and NYC is turned into Gaza there is no weapon to protect me just a community who are opposed and will open their hearts & homes share whatever they can. It's why supporting local farmers & community building efforts are my best way to grow resistance cuz truth is when %$#@ goes down only folks standing around you will help save you. Don't expect that idea to set well w globalists!
Untold Story of 9-11 Epic Rescue Operation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDOrzF7B2Kg
Don't bother to examine the moral dilemma William Munny faces as he gives up his quest for redemption and responds to a desperate plea for help.
Then give us some "feel good" diversions that have nothing to do with the question.
The "community" will, of course, help -- until they can't any longer.
I suppose Skywalker should have just forgotten about it.
"you are my only hope" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUX-CO_DA7o
With your reasoning, Hamas should never have attacked and Russia should have allowed the Donbas to continue to suffer.
While I agree with your epistemological musings in the abstract, it is rather unlikely that enough information will be available any time soon upon which to make an assertion based upon fact. How long was it before any solid facts were made available about the JFK assassination, and the complete facts, despite continuous promises, are still being kept from the public. And that was a successful assassination. I think it unrealistic that any responses based upon facts will be possible for a while, if ever. What can be made are some fact-based statements about the political and civic conditions that provided the climate which make such an event more than likely. In fact, given the facts we have, the only irrational response I can imagine is one of surprise. What brings me to a place of dismay is that this was so predictable. And this seems to me a more accurate register for the state of our political, civic, and social landscape.
The idea that any of the facts that will be revealed over the coming days will be trustworthy is naive at best. If Donald Trump has done nothing else of value, he has revealed to all who want to see the extent to which our democracy is a myth and to which the Deep State or Security State or Blob or whatever you want to call it, controls the country. This truth has been known to those who sought it out or were in a position in which it made itself known for a long while. However, it was only with Trump that it has become a topic of the general discourse. However, the fact that it has become part of the general discourse does not seem to have lessened the power it has to twist the available limits of known political reality to its bidding. The only thing that this general revelation has accomplished is to make more likely more extreme actions than in the past decades since the advent of this Blob. While this attempt might well prove to be the lunatic action of a lone assassin, it really hardly matters, as the trust in any information provided to prove one truth or another is all but vanished. And I dare say, rightly so. After the mainstream media became a wing of one of the two dominant parties, how can anyone muster trust on any mass level. Those who do trust, with few exceptions, are doing so out of partisanship rather than any rational survey of the given facts. The given facts which, once again, have been revealed to be intentionally circumscribed and skewed in the manner they have been doled out. Only after months or years, or even decades, do we seem to put together the courage and capabllity to challenge to paltry and questionable servings which we have been offered.
I am hopeful that the that part of the web that is still free continues to make a difference and that there will continue to be an acceleration in the correction of official fact or propaganda, that there will continue to be an acceleration in the offering of alternative versions to the official 'truth'. But those who are offering such hope are under assault and are daily battling for their right to exist. Another reality which should tell us how untrustworthy any facts in the near after of an event are likely to be.
A long way just to say that any rational response is unlikely. And the word 'reaction' by definition is not rational. I hope there will be space for the rational before this election. But hope, possibly in a more positive and gentle way, is not very rational itself.
After Assange, how can we ever trust "them" again?
Great perspective. I hope Trump uses this opportunity to reset his tone and the national conversation.
Poor reasoning also extends to many in mass media and sadly politics/gov't. It seems there are no consequences for repeating false information about your opponent, or getting former gov't officials to sign false statements for a particular party, let alone choosing not to prosecute the exact same crime levied on your rival because the prosecutor can predict the jury's outcome..?
Spoken like a true journalist.
Looking forward to your reports from Milwaukee!
Perhaps RFK, Jr. is re-thinking his request for Secret Service "protection" ,which the Biden administration has so far denied him.
This is quite well said:
I don’t even have that desire for any particular outcome. I don’t “desire” for the motives or background of an attempted assassin to align with my political prerogatives, which are divorced from the current partisan tempest anyway.
WSJ is reporting he had explosives with him as wel, so domestic terrorism. Antifa finally defined?l
Sorry, Mike. The nature of the beast, I guess. A journalist has higher standards of evaluation (or should have) than the crowd, so there's always going to be frustration when you clearly see lazy reasoning and social media is blissfully ignorant.
At least you're not alone.
When the clash between the combined West and the combining rest eventually winds down, it will go down as one of history's most spectacular and most embarrassing failures of leadership. If Western leaders were capable of shame, they would be resigning their positions in droves. The fact that they’re not is because they were carefully recruited and cultivated precisely so that they wouldn't have such scruples.
West under clowns and zealots -- Western world has been cultivating a dangerous groupthink that's all but sealed the collapse of their agendas. -- Alex Sasha Krainer -- Jun 05, 2024
https://substack.com/home/post/p-145338306
“There is probably very little that can or should be done to counter it (no censorship, please) but for my part I would advise people to strengthen their critical faculties and conscientiously consume all info they see online.” - ok but it seems to me that the pure volume of social media itself that people consume on a nonstop basis is weakening and has weakened critical faculties beyond the breaking point. It requires pure force of will with absolutely no guardrails to help them. It’s like telling someone to limit their sugar intake or drink moderately when they carry around candy or booze with them wherever they go.
I mean if this is the point at which you realize people's capability to sort truth from fiction is woefully deficient, I would say you haven't really been paying attention. This is the exact reason why propaganda and campaign financing are still so effective, because people are easily duped. We consider ourselves rational creatures, the truth is we think 90%-95% with our emotions first, the remaining 5-10% is rationality, depending on the person.
Philosophers have been delving into this innate human irrationality for many years now. Consider Plato's Allegory of the Cave, and you will understand how the human mind works. We see shadows on a wall, and we take it for realty. If someone comes by to tell us differently, the natural human reaction is to tell that person to go pound sand, these shadows are real and no one will convince me otherwise.